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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Here's the non-partisan bit:

3 Reasons To Voter Today!!

1) Because you can
2) Because you can
3) Because you can.

I don't care what your politics are, or who you vote for. Get out and exercise your right to vote. The more people who vote, the more representative of the nation your government will be. Over the last century or so, this country has had dismal voter turnout (typically under 50%), which gives disproportional power to the groups who do turn out. When you don't vote, you are giving more power to others, and making it that much easier for those who oppose your views to win and impose their views on you. Every vote you don't cast is one less that they need to succeed. While it may seem that one vote is inconsequential, when you have whole groups of people who don't speak up (i.e. the poor, homeless and less educated just to name a few) they tend to get under-represented in our government. If every eligible voter would take the time to exercise their right to vote, the government would look a lot different than it does now, and most of these people would not be in power.

Even in districts where you have to wait a long time to vote, it's only one day every 2 years. Get off your ass and vote!!

Here's The Partisan Bit:

To my friends in California, please Vote for Prop 19 and tell all your friends to do the same!!

To everyone else, Please Vote Democrat!

"We Have A Center-Right Party And A Crazy Party. Over The Last 30 Years, The Democrats Have Moved To The Right, And The Republicans Have Moved Into A Mental Hospital... Sure, I'm Mad At The Democrats. I'm Also Mad At My Cell Phone Company. But I Don't Throw Away My Cell Phone Because I'm Mad And Then Rub Dog Shit On My Teeth." (Bill Maher)

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 2, 2010 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I did, I did, I did.

I voted three times.............

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Poster: advokat Date: Nov 2, 2010 8:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I wish there was a way I could vote 100 times....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2uWcukaSpg

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 3, 2010 5:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

If you voted where I voted yesterday, you could have. Since they didn't cross the names of the people who did provisional ballots off the list, those people could easily have come back later and voted again.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 3, 2010 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

At least PA was smart (or lucky) enough to see through Sestak's load of crap. Toomey may turn out to not be any better, but just by not being Sestak is a plus.

He was at Fleet Forces Command when I was at Commander, Naval Submarine Force - he was as much of an arrogant asshat then as he is now.

Funny, I never saw the fact that he was terminated by the Chief of Naval Operations for loss of confidence in ability to effectively lead come up in any of his campaigning.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 3, 2010 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I saw it pretty much the other way around. I don't really care for Sestak - have heard some nasty stories about him. But at least he isn't Toomey.
Toomey does seem to fit into our tradition of relatively-inoffensive-as-Republicans-go Republican governors. He's not Tea Party, and he doesn't seem crazy.

edit - except that of course he wasn't elected governor. Just ignore me!!

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-11-03 18:09:29

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 2, 2010 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Hear! Hear!

It's all partisan over here: as a registered Republican, I can tell you that even the California Republican party *declined* to endorse either Carly Fiorina for senator or Meg Whitman for governor, so what does that tell you?

No matter what party you are in, please cast your vote for the Lesser Evils: Boxer and Brown. Whitman will do NOTHING but pursue opportunities for personal profit: it's gonna be Arnold 2.0 if she's elected. Brown may be many things but he is not an opportunist, and he's already proven that he's not in this for personal gain.

Also interesting to me is that one of Prop 19's biggest opponents is the medical marijuana people - don't want to give up that monopoly, eh boys?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

re: please cast your vote for the Lesser Evils -- the downside view of this is... Republicrats!

Ralph Nader said this today, interviewed by Amy Goodman's Democracy Now's news hour

Yes, I mean, right now, I think if the trends bear out, Amy, once again, the Democrats will demonstrate to the American people they cannot defend the country against the most craven Republican Party in history. I mean, I’ve never seen worse Republicans. With every ounce of potential tolerance I have toward the Republicans, I can say that I have never seen crueler, more vicious, more unknowing Republicans in the Congress, with very few exceptions, like Walter Jones from North Carolina.

So, what we see here is complicity. When people say, "Gee, why aren’t the wars an issue?"—well, because the Democrats are complicit in both the Iraq and Afghanistan war. "Why isn’t corporate welfare and subsidies and bailouts of Wall Street crooks an issue?" Well, because the Democrats have done the same thing as the Republicans. Just now, they’re giving away the store to the taxpayers’ share in General Motors in the IPO that’s about to be issued. And they say, "Well, why aren’t the Democrats making a big deal of corporate crime against consumers and workers and issues like minimum wage and card check?" Because the Democrats don’t want to be involved in that. They’re dialing for the same corporate dollars. They say, "Well, why aren’t the Democrats raising these great civil liberty issues, like what’s in the PATRIOT Act?" Well, they just rubber-stamped another renewal over a year ago of the PATRIOT Act.

So, that’s why they can’t draw a bright line between the Democrats and Republicans, as Franklin Delano Roosevelt did in making the people think that the Republicans were the party of Big Business and the Democrats were the party of working people. And that worked a lot for both him and Harry Truman. Imagine what those two gentlemen would have done to today’s Republican Party, instead of the namby-pamby, wishy-washy, so-called phony "bipartisanship" of Obama’s administration and his allies in Congress.

We could never get today the legislation we got in the '60s and early ’70s, even under the Nixon administration—EPA, OSHA, air and water pollution control, consumer protection laws, etc. You can't possibly get them. There’s a simple auto safety bill to strengthen the budgets and law enforcement of the Department of Transportation following the Toyota acceleration problem, and it’s wallowing in the House and in the Senate. There’s a food safety bill that’s thirty years overdue to deal with contaminated food and preventing thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of sicknesses in this country, and it passed the House, it’s been buried in the Senate. The Senate is controlled by Democrats, so—and they don’t want to change the filibuster rules, and now that’s going to come back to haunt them. So, I think the Democrats are beyond "Well, let’s put some pressure on them."

They’ve been so corporatized, so monetized, so driven on corporate power closer to the Republican Party, regardless of their rhetoric, that we have to have third party and independent candidates, even ones that are up against all this rigged ballot access obstruction. No other Western country obstructs voters and candidates the way this country does, especially with its state laws.

And that’s why I favor people voting their conscience. As Eugene Debs once said, better to vote for who you believe and lose than vote for who you don’t believe and win. And if we don’t vote our conscience, if we have this tactical, pragmatic approach, I ask those people one question: what’s your breaking point? How bad does the Democratic Party have to be, even though the Republican Party is worse, before you break away and stop being captured and taken for granted the way African Americans have been taken for granted by the Obama administration? That’s the key question everyone has to ask themselves as a voter: what is your breaking point? If you don’t have a breaking point, you don’t have a moral compass.

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 1:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I'm sorry DHM, but I can't agree. Nader's attitude is nice enough in theory, but the reality of it all is that it caused George W. Those folks who said they couldn't see the diff between Gore and Bush were blind. Think Gore would have gotten us into Iraq? Think Gore would have bagged on supporting the environment? Think business regulation would have all but disappeared? Would Gore have ignored global warming? Would Gore have lowered tax rates for the wealthy? And best of all, would Gore have appointed the Supreme Court justices that we now have for the rest of my foreseeable life? I don't think so, but I'm just an old cranky cuss by now who has seen a whole lot of crap in my time.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 2, 2010 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I'm crankier; I cannot wait for all these political calls to stop. I think I've spoken to the AZ gov eh Nore a dozen times the past two weeks.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 2, 2010 5:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Sorry but you can't have the cranky award, I guarantee you I'm crankier. Thank God it is over, I would have put a brick through the television if I had to see one more of those ads.

So I exercised my right to vote, despite the typical Philadelphia incompetence and suspected corruption. I showed up at my regular polling place at 7 a.m. to find none of the machines working and no indication of when they would be working ("We've called headquarters and they're sending someone"). They were willing to give us provisional ballots (and we all know how well THAT works), but we when we started to fill them out, we were told we couldn't use our own pencils, we had to use THEIR pencils. Okay fine we'll use your pencils. Oh, well, we don't HAVE any pencils. They were apparently waiting for pencils from headquarters.

Was this really 2010, was I trying to vote in the Jim Crow South perhaps? Nope Philadelphia 2010.

You'll all be proud of me, when I got to work I called the Committee of Seventy and the county board of elections and my party committee person for our district (the first two of whom recorded and handled my complaint admirably, and the third of whom was not particularly happy to speak with me).

And yes, I did go back after work and vote (they seemed to have figured out whatever was wrong with the machines). But what about people who weren't able to come back later? Possibly some funny business there, or possibly just typical Philly idiocy. Take your pick, democracy's great.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I read a story the other day that said that growers in Humboldt are also against Prop 19. I'm sure that many of them, when they got into the biz, were advocates of legalization, but now that there will be more competition, taxes, lower prices and therefore lower profits, they are against it.

It just goes to show you that greed is such a motivating factor that folks would rather make lots of money while risking jail time than vote for freedom to make their industry legal!

FUCK 'EM!!



This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-11-02 17:05:45

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 2, 2010 8:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Ya know Purp, you are probably right about Humboldt growers. However, I don't grow or sell and I voted against 19. At this point I don't trust the elected officials of this state to tax and regulate in a responsible manner. We need to free non-violent offenders and change the pension structure for State Employees in order to create revenue for failing education and crumbling infrastructure. California is dying from unsustainable retirement plans and an ever-expanding prison system. Until they(The douche-bags in Sacto) accept some of the blame for our current problems, I'm not sending any new money their way. Right now, those who want or need pot can get it cheap and fairly.

So, I agree Fuck'em. Just fuck a different 'em.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 3, 2010 9:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Christine O'Donnell's concession speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8

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Poster: snori Date: Nov 2, 2010 1:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I've been following these elections from a safe distance and trying to remember what I learned from The West Wing. Other than the late night BBC World coverage there have been very few serious reports, which disappoints me considering how affected we are by decisions taken in the U.S. (When America sneezes Europe catches a cold etc)

Most of the less heavyweight coverage has centred on the vitriolic attacks on your President, and I admit I've been a bit shocked at some of the things I've heard and seen. You probably didn't notice the story over here last week when one Member of Parliament had to apologise to another for calling him a 'ginger rodent', but that's a world away from the almost hysterical outpourings coming from Obama's opponents.

Hope the day goes the way you'd like it to and whether it does or not have a listen to the TDIH that Cliff recommended earlier - it really is an American Beauty.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1969-11-02.sbd.miller.32350.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 2, 2010 6:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Interesting you would be seeing it that way from abroad. I have heard NOTHING and NO ONE here point out that anyone's got any personal problem with the president. It's true, of course; but the pundits just say with a straight face that the election is a forum on "the role of government" and that sort of thing. The fact that a LOT of people have a big personal problem with this president for very unadmirable reasons is not mentioned. We just aren't supposed to talk about it.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Vote against EVERY incumbent regardless of party affiliation!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 2, 2010 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

That doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Not if you believe government IS the problem!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Still doesn't make sense. If you vote, you're voting for a government. If you want to be consistent don't bother voting. I'm not recommending this, but you can't logically advise people to vote against the incumbents and claim you're voting against government per se.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I guess that's better than actually thinking about it and making a rational decision. No wonder this country is so fucked up.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Just a reminder that we still live in a country where all citizens are NOT represented equally. Quirks in the constitution and DC's status as a virtual colony of the Federal Government mean that the 600,000 US citizens living in DC do not have representation in either house of Congress. DC has more people than Wyoming, which has two senators and a House rep who actually votes!

Education is the key here. As you go to the polls today, remember that there are 600,000 Americans who don't have the same rights as you.

WASHINGTON, DC - TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I Agree!! The GOP, however, will never let that happen because DC is a Democratic stronghold!

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

They are free to move out of DC, and off the government dole, if they really want representation.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

VOTE FOR THE CROOK OF YOUR CHOICE, BUT VOTE!!

that said, as far as for the Altered State of California,
"If it's Brown, flush it down - I've seen his crap before!"

Yes on Prop 19

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

"Off the government dole"!?

Hey asshole... I'm not on the "government dole," and nor are most people who live and work here. My job is in DC, and I do not work for the government. I live here because I want to live where I work. I want a community instead of a commute. Is it really too much to ask that I have representation in Congress?

Why don't you think before you open your mouth?

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2010-11-02 19:36:56

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Why don't you check your facts before opening your pie hole. DC gets more Federal money per capita than any other part of the country.

IDIOT!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

That's because this is where the government is! Same reason Virginia and Maryland rank high on the same list. Should we take away their congressional representation too?

Amazing how supposedly enlightened people can trick themselves into arguing against equal representation for all. Keep going man. You're on a roll.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

I think career-welfarefolk should not be allowed to vote because of a conflict of interest - to those working folk who pay taxes, and of course, no voting for illegals(duh)and convicted felons.

I expect LOTS of voter fraud today from power hungry corrupt incumbants and their minions of Poll Workers

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

The vast majority of the "federal dole" money that DC gets goes to pay people's salaries. In other words, they have jobs, and they earn their money -- just like everyone else. Why should someone who works for Los Alamos in New Mexico (the second highest per capita rcpnt) get to vote, but not his coworker in DC? There's no rational way of explaining it, except to fall back on the constitution. Which is fine, of course, but the constitution has been wrong a few times. Or is it that DC citizens only deserve 3/5 of a vote each?

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

"Government worker" now there's an oxymoron if there ever was one!

You've gone from denial to justification in just two posts. What don't you get about DC's special status? It has been that way for more than 200 years, you knew they didn't have voting rights, you still moved there of your own free will and now your bitching about it on a music board. Who's the ignorant one here?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

You, obviously. It has nothing to do with me not understanding it. It's about a lot of people who live and work here wanting to change it. See the difference?

What's wrong with fighting for something when you see injustice? I guess your answer is to just run away. How cowardly. I'm glad others in the world are less complacent than you are.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2010-11-03 05:30:04

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 3, 2010 6:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

You can live and work where ever you like but it has consequences. You’re trying to change something but are ignorant of the facts and reasons for its very existence. There is no injustice here even though you claim to “see” one. The federal government must operate freely and independently of any local jurisdiction. DC is the founders’ solution to the injustices they experienced during their time in Philadelphia. So the injustice you “see” affecting the 600K Districters is far less than the injustice you would impose on the more than 300 million Americans by creating a separate “state” for DC. However I am open to a proposal that would let them be counted with Maryland in Federal elections.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 3, 2010 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Once again, I understand perfectly well the reasons behind denying more than 600,000 the right to vote in the nation's capital. I'm saying that i think they are stupid reasons, perpertuated these days mainly by partisanship and, in some cases, racism.

The threat is no longer realistic. The fact is, we are the only democratic country in the world where the citizens of its capital city are denied the right to vote. Your fear is irrational and damaging to democracy.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 3:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Yeah the founders were real stupid people. Enjoy your ignorance.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

"Enjoy your ignorance."

Perhaps you have some tips?

I would prefer to see things for how they are today than to rely on the judgment of people who lived more than two centuries ago. You cite the opinions of the founders as if doing so were an excuse to not think for yourself. Times change, no? Or do you still think that women and blacks should be denied the right to vote?

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Your constant attempts to tie this to the suffragette and civil rights movement is pathetic and ignorant. Having already established your bona fides in that regard there's really no need for you to continue on this line of argument.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 4, 2010 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Your total failure to understand/care about a fundamental civil rights issue like equal representation under the law is telling, but not particularly shocking. I have learned that it is virtually impossible to underestimate the American people.

Why not tie it to universal suffrage? How is it different? The framers did many things wrong. Denying women and black people the right to vote was wrong. Counting black people as 3/5 of a person was wrong. Denying 600,000 people the right to vote while demanding they pay federal taxes is fundamentally wrong. Thankfully, we have the power to change these things.

Your sole argument for maintaining DC's status as a colony to be taxed fully but denied the right to vote is that it's always been that way. You've even contradicted yourself by saying that DC should "revert" to Maryland. So it's okay by you if the District is under control of the Maryland government. Doesn't that present the exact same kind of "threat" to the federal government as DC statehood?

Secondly, do you have any response to the fact that we are the ONLY democratic country that denies citizens in the capital the right to vote? I would note that the British, French and Canadians have somehow managed to hold off the thundering revolutionary hordes based in their capital cities. Why are we different?

Sorry, but it's very hard not to see your position on this as racist. DC would be the only state with a majority black population. In a country that currently has no black senators, I suppose tthat would be too much for some people. Maybe that's not your reasoning, but in the absence of anything that makes sense, I'll assume that's the case.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Typical loony lefty everyone you disagree with gets labeled a racist.

Move to a real State if the issue bothers you so much. Again you'll be off the government dole that DC residents enjoy and the associated perks of, in your twisted logic, being a slave living in the District.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 4, 2010 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

If the shoe fits..

Look, I asked you several specific questions that followed the logic of your argument that the government needs a non-voting buffer zone around it to survive. Since you responded to none of them, I have to fall back on the simplest explanation. In this case, racism. Until you make a sensible argument, that's really all I've got to work with.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2010-11-04 16:45:29

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Asked and answered. The founders logic and solution are sound for our republic. They are still sound today.

Again you diminish the true injustice of slavery in your ill considered use of it in your argument. Work with that.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 4, 2010 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Show me where I compared anything to slavery. I've been very clear that I think denying tax-paying citizens the right to vote is a no-brainer civil right issue. On that we disagree, obviously. You think that some things are more important than allowing people equal represntation under the law. I don't.

But nowhere did I compare anything to slavery. Why must you make things up? Can't we just have a normal discussion here?

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 11:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

You really are in denial. Please seek help.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 4, 2010 1:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Another strong response. Very convincing. You're really starting to win me over with your idealism and your penetrating logic.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 4, 2010 4:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Sorry but I'm not in the business winning over those in denial. Answer me this. How many times did you refer to "3/5" in this thread? That is a direct reference to slavery! Having come from an enslaved people I don't take casual references and comparisons to it very kindly. Get your head out of your ass and stop deluding yourself about the depths of your ignorance.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 2, 2010 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Actually, I would only chime in as a guilty party myself to say that the vast majority of state and federal employees work very little. Benefits and the rest are unreal. I am very happy, BUT I am objective.

This has no relevance to your pt; just an observation of the degree to which fed/state employees truly work...I know there are exceptions, like everyone's mother, but the number of workers at these two levels is simply astounding, and the next time you are in a DMV line, just say "Tell was right; they're dumber than dirt too".

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 2:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

THEN NO VOTE FOR YOU EITHER!!!!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 2, 2010 6:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

oh, dear me! People on welfare should not be allowed to vote?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 3, 2010 9:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

how about Corporate welfare? Oh wait, citizens united. Now they can buy elections with their taxpayer paid subsides. Man, it never ceases to amaze me how people pick the wrong problems to focus on

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 3, 2010 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

STOP THIS SOCIALIST PATH WE ARE ON!!!!!!!


And please pay my uncle to grow corn for ethanol so he can afford to buy diesel to run the tractor to harvet the same....

Get your govt hands off my medicare!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 3, 2010 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

did you see that tea party article in Rolling Stone? Dude counting all the freakin tax payer bought scooters all these geezers were driving to their antui Government rallys. Its the same everywhere - when they get it its good anybody else its bad. Ask Joe freaking tea party Miller up here

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 3, 2010 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

did you see that tea party article in Rolling Stone? Dude counting all the freakin tax payer bought scooters all these geezers were driving to their antui Government rallys. Its the same everywhere - when they get it its good anybody else its bad. Ask Joe freaking tea party Miller up here

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 3, 2010 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

LOL. I find that to be a common attitude ... government is spending way too much money on vague "programs," i.e., on other people. On me, government is probably not spending enough. I'M ENTITLED!!!!

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Really, you think it's right that they pay taxes yet have no say in their government because of where they live? Isn't that why we fought a revolution over 200 years ago?

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Yes DC was intentionally setup in the Constitution as a Federal entity under the legislation of Congress and not as a state within the union. It was setup as such because of earlier experiences when the capital was located in Philadelphia and local authorities refused to protect the government. It is Constitutional, see Article One Section 8, and as American as apple pie.

By the way the 23rd Amendment gave the District representation in the Electoral College.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Absolutely, the 8th Amendment was passed over 200 years ago, a different time, and as we know, the constitution can be wrong (i.e. slavery, prohibition, suffrage etc) and may be amended. It is also very American to admit when the Constitution is wrong and to take action to correct those mistakes.
Even though, since 1961, DC has electoral college votes, they are still excluded from voting for the other half of the elected government. That would be the half that has the constitutional authority to declare war, make decisions on taxes and funding, and the half that gets to decide which areas and districts get the benefits of taxes that they have collected (some of which comes from the people of DC).
I don't think that the folks of DC should be happy just because they have partial voting rights.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-11-02 19:25:53

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

There is nothing wrong about the Constitution. It is the law of the land. Peoples perception of right and wrong change over time but that does not make what went on in the past wrong. Had you lived in that time your perceptions would be very different.

The District will never become a state. One course they could take is to retrocede to Maryland which would require the approval of Congress and the Maryland legislature. they will never do that because it would mean the end off all that Federal money they recieve for living in the District.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 2, 2010 2:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Yeah, like Eric Grannon, whose is running for my Maryland county's state's attorney, but lives in DC to get the homestead tax credit.

DC is not the place it used to be from the riots in 1968 through Marion Barry. It's much more live-able than most cities of its size (its population is closer to 750,000 than the aforementioned 600,000). Property values have gone way up as more and more suburbanites have moved in and rehabilitated areas that were slummy just a decade ago. Also, DC has eliminated new housing subsidies so the riff-raff is moving east and north to the Maryland suburbs and Baltimore City.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Right, self-rule is so overrated. How nice it is living under the boot of the Federal government while having virtually no say in the way it does its work. It's a real picnic.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

You're right, of course, using the word "wrong" was a poor choice. As you suggest, what seemed to make sense 200 years ago, does not necessarily make sense today. The Constitution is a living document and as such can evolve over the years as circumstances change. While it is very difficult to amend the Constitution it can be done and has been done many times over the years. The Founders made sure of that by allowing for amendments in article five.

If anyone's interested in what it takes to amend the constituion, follow this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

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Poster: Edsel Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Of course it's right, people live there by CHOICE, isn't that a Dem buzzword ?

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DC WANTS TO VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Many people lived in the colonies by choice as well. We didn't think it was right then, why think that now??

I believe that citizens should be able to CHOOSE where they live in this country without having to choose whether they will be able to exercise their rights as Americans to fully participate in our system. Hell, even citizens who live overseas are allowed to vote in national elections.

I don't know if you have ever tried to relocate your family, but it is an expensive proposition.

So, I wonder if you are advocating that it's ok that citizens who don't have the financial means to make a move are not allowed to fully participate in our selection process.

Many people have been born and raised in DC, it's the only place they know.

So maybe you are saying that it's ok to tell certain citizens that they need to make a choice between their family/community and exercising their rights as citizens to fully participate in our democracy.

Or, maybe you think that it's right that taxpaying, citizens of this country who live in certain communities don't have the right to cast national votes on how that money is spent or on issues that may directly affect their community. (How'd that work out for you 18th century England?)

I don't know your politics, but is it because they may not agree with you and may cast votes you don't like so you want them to move to another area to break up their group so that their voting power will be diluted?

Boy, none of that sounds very "American" to me!!

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-11-02 18:49:02

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Poster: Edsel Date: Nov 2, 2010 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Fuck Bill Maher.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 2, 2010 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Good for, you exercising your constitutional rights to Free Speech. Please exercise your constitutional right to VOTE as well!!

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-11-02 17:04:45

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Poster: Edsel Date: Nov 2, 2010 9:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

Voted at 7:15 AM local time.

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